Der Clown interview with Lars Lind and Eric Friedler

what did they say?

Oh I can just post what my friend sent. Excuse any spelling and grammar errors.

He said, he found parts of the film, that was great, but then he made Jerry speak about it and that was very great.But then he realized, it is not all, it is much more complicated. There is also a producer, JL feeling of losing and his high entitlements, his try to show a not Jewish German, a good German, his try to understand the Holocaust, then he learned that he couldn't understand it at all, then he used a real nazi as a consultant - there were so many components, that the filmmaker wasn't sure what his film is gonna be showing.

this was to minute 10.12

He tells that his film is such a long one, because he wanted to bring all together but he was never sure, if he would be successful with that plan.

The interviewer asks the filmmaker at 14.36 You found out in your research, things that other people didn't know, not even the people interviewed in your film did know about these news about all the complicated facts behind the whole thing and on the other side we have JL who says, "That was just bad work". What would you say Eric, you let the end open for interpretations, was this for him significant or was he just afraid about his own courage? Could he solve it at the end anyhow, when he wanted to solve?
Eric answers at 15.23:
Yes I think so. I think it could have been solved and he wanted to solve it, he wanted to make the film again. After all the catastrophes that could happen to a director happened... First of all his own skepticism, the loneliness of the hero he self plays, his own failures before the shootings and then his own feeling that he couldn't understand the theme so fully. Then suddenly the producer who jumped off the project, his try to produce on his own, and then to say I can't anymore, and running away and deserting everything and then bringing his things together and making the film and the ending, it shows us, that he wanted it. I think all the ingredients were there to make it real.
I think he could have make it to end the film and bring it to the cinemas, maybe it wouldn't have been a great success but anyway, he would have bring it to an end. But then to learn that not even the rights were secured was the mortal blow at the end for him.
I just can say, you have to see it in the time when something is produced or made. (it was just to soon after the real Holocaust). We make nowadays cinema and films in a different way. i saw a lot of scenes which i enjoyed myself very much. I also saw scenes which were badly shot, I saw him acting very bad, but also acting very good. But what we found were only film snippets.
Film material of 24 minutes. and we tried with the Swedish actors to complete them. That's why we cant judge it. That can only happen, when we could see all the snippets and film together. we know, that JL has some film spools, we know that the film assistant also has some spools. We will see in the future if someones put them all together and show, what really impact is in it.


21.40 the interviewer asks Eric, you were the witness of the (new made) scenes (with the old actors). How was it for you?
First of all shy when you've got 7 legends in front of you, who you really don't want to direct as a director so easily, so I tried to hold back as good as I could, because they were all very nice to me, but they worked with the best directors in the world and I felt tiny and lousy and i had a unbelievable respect of them all.
our decision was, we had all this film snippets, they were partly perforated and incomplete, we synchronized it lipsynced, we did this, because we knew we wouldn't understand the story, when it was left incomplete. The best was, that the actors were there. The question was, should we put the actors in their uniforms and dress them up like then in their soles as a ss-soldier, when they are today 88 years old already? that was somehow strange. That's why we made these parts like a theater rehearsal with good light but normal dresses maybe a uniform cap, but no big costumes. many played their roles like Nils Ecklung, who played the bartender, who found it all very funny and sometimes he fell asleep while shooting. but hey he was 92, what could you tell him? we were waking him up and his colleagues were arguing with him about it but it was naturally. and we decided to take them with all the rolling walker and stuff, like they are today.
and that was good like that. And I had the feeling they brought things to an end, about they were thinking about for decades. They brought their own film after 40 years to end end and completed it. That was the mission.

26.31 What would you say, Eric, as a filmmaker and director: it the idea not in itself crazy (or was then) to make this film in that time? and has Claude Landsmann not truly said, it was the best decision, that JL did not bring this film to an end?
26.51 Eric:
Roberto Benigni's film has also critics who say they don't like the film. I don't know. I always saw the theme Holocaust and saw it as a serious theme and would handle that in this way only. I cant imagine to show it in a comedy or funny way. At the end I find it very bizarre to bring children to a gas chamber as a tragic ending and in the between you had some funny moments with them... Of course there is a philosophy of everything what is funny could also been tragic and that tragedy could be more tragic when you have funny elements in it. But it is always that close to fail in a so serious a theme - I would never ever do a film like this. And i think Landsmann is right, no matter why JL had to pull in the reins, it was the right move. and I think this is one of the reasons he never wanted to talk about it.
This documentation is about the failing of an artist, of art, of ideals, the failure of not getting through the story.
There were so many ingredients in it, going wrong, that it was the best that the film has not been shown in this way.
28.45: interviewer:
You have to have the disparity remind you, he wants to shoot a comedy and he involved as a technical consultant not only an ex ss-soldier, but a person, who was directly involved by examination of Jews.
Eric: Right! and that is very absurd. as we found out in our researches, we thought, oh my, how could he dare? That was really perverted. That's what comes on top, of his own challenges and problems, he put this on top, because he has such an aim, he must hold it humanistic together and has a nazi as a consultant and he involved the most known costume designers of the world Margo who was a jew living in berlin. you had both poles in one. and you as a documentary filmmaker think about try to stay away from that all. how could i present that now? but JL was completely convinced that he acted the right way.
30.07 interviewer in english
31.48 Interviewer:Eric, JL pulled back and said, I wanted to be the best, that he always wanted to make the best comedy but when you notice, nothing in this film is funny, so you dont have to think, that he failed, you could make the film anyway (eric says, yeah you are right) and it has not to be a comedy at the end, when you notice, ok it is so not even a little funny.
Eric:
Yeah, you are right.he could have made a drama of it at least. but he had another agenda, another vision, i think he lost complete his way. like lars said, you see him in some scenes in clown make up in the camp and there a logical questions: how did he got things like make up and cigarettes or matches in the camp? there were many of these absurdities. things which where impossible in a concentration camp. he ignored these facts anyway. but of course you could have make a drama film and maybe the people would have accepted that more. and I think this was his plan, like I understood that, that he said, he wanted to make some new shots, to fix the scenes, what went wrong.
but he had no chance because he had not the rights for the material.
But at least i think he wanted make a tragic comedy.
34.00: interviewer:
You have to reveal how you made JL to tell us from his legacy. he complete reject it until then. the experts we are listen to, know about the legend of this film but you made him speak about it. we know that the king of comedy, the guy at the box office, was known specially at the journalists: you fly out of the door, before you came in, (when he was in that mood).
Eric:
that was a week before like that that a colleague from the bbc was with him and asked him one question about the film and was kicked out immediately with the words: that is now your fucking business. when I heard that, and i had booked all our flights already, I was a little uncertain... and when I was there the manager told me in the early morning well eric, he is not in a good mood... and we had all the cameras in position and so on. I was totally nervous and I thought about all my questions and his answers and my reaction and so on. but at the end it always different, as you thought. But then the manager said: Maybe he will speak two or 3 minutes. and I thought, of my God, how can I justify that? we are in Las Vegas, and the flights and made all the stuff and now I saw myself failed and flying home again and telling the channel I worked for that JL was not in the mood to talk to me. so i was peeing my pants. and then he came in.
we researched, how he reacts, when he is in that mood, so we tried to wear all suits and neckties.
Interviewer: but he had none!
eric:
Nope, but he is JERRY LEWIS!
But he is from another world, another time, another era and we knew that he really don't like guys who are standing in front of him with their big equipment and ask him, how do you feel. That is what he really doesn't like.So he came in and saw something like a film set. Something what looked a bit more bigger. That he liked and he begun immediately to talk to the camera staff and ignored me completely. We get his highchair, his director's chair from Los Angeles, with his name on it. He found that cool. We had his favorite lemonade something like dr pepper fanta style. he liked that also. but he still ignored me. and then he take control over the directing. he said to the camera guy: so rolling. and the light more there. he took control over all.
A good advise I have gotten was, when he does, what he does, don't get between it. let him do.he wanted to have the feeling, he is the director. So I let him do it and then did it. Then i begun a little conversation. and maybe I was lucky, because he felt comfortable in this moment. And I had the feeling, that this was his testament, his last will. So he wanted to speak about it (the film) now. he wanted to manifest in this moment. and he says in the film, everybody will ask, why now? And why is he speaking to a German about it? But it was a trauma for him, the whole story. And we talked very long with each other. i was very thankful that he was trusting us so much.
He was totally resistant, as I was telling we saw parts of the raw material. How he was feeling about it, we asked. He was completely apathetic and said, I don't care. and I don't care if you or someone else likes it.
After he was seeing my documentary, he told me, that he found it cool and good. That was moving for us all, of course, and we felt very proud.
But at least we could only work with the stuff we had,and we wanted to complete the film, as good as we could.
39.27 interviewer:
So JL saw your film?
etic: yes, he liked it on facebook a thousand times. he liked facebook a lot. and liked twitter. and everything technical.
His manager reached me and he liked it somehow too.
But it is not so, that you meet JL and then call him later and ask, hey Jerry, how do you like it? he is a star. He is a star, that learned with this film the disaster of his life. a star that made no more films anymore, just the king of comedy with Martin Scorsese, what took him out of the down. He had big financial problems.
but if you ask me, what is the most sad scene in my film, it is the scene from klimbim (german comedy show) where he sits there for 15.000 deutsche mark and has to show his typewriter number and i think, wow, that it, it comes so quick (to go down).
40.41 interviewer: The typewriter number he had to do again and again. I have the feeling he was then in all german show with this number.

43.58 interviewer: speculative question on the end.
I think the people would see it as a cinematic film from 1972 and a try to come closer to this theme with JL`s resources. I think his reject to show this film, to talk about this film and the fact, that for a long time parts of the film were not to find, it mystified and made it to that legend of a film. But at least one could also say, it is maybe a good or bad movie but is was shot in a way, like you did it in 1972. maybe one would say, the film is boring. but for us it was exciting, because it was a myth. (please look lars here, he is not feeling comfortable, when eric says, the film is boring.) so we were so proud finding the snippets, first of all the pictures, then the background material. that made not the film at the end. but if you ask, if this is THE film, when we could completely see it, I would say, I don't know. I think a lot of people would say nowadays, that it is boring. The cinephiles would love it, because of the myth, not the theme.